Windermere
Windermere’s speed limit will remain, a judge ruled this week.
But campaigners challenging the lake’s 10mph limit threw the decision into doubt, with further claims of lost evidence. The Keep Windermere Alive Association had applied to the High Court for a review of the four-year-old limit which, they said, contravened their rights. However, if the ruling stands, the association faces having to pay the Lake District National Park Authority’s costs if it loses the case for a judicial review.
Deputy High Court Judge Neil Garnham told the group there was ‘no properly arguable basis for this challenge’. He refused permission for a full judicial review hearing.
The national park authority’s chief executive Richard Leafe welcomed the ruling, saying he was pleased but not surprised. He said: “We can now concentrate on the important task of making the lake an even safer and more enjoyable place to use.
“Windermere has improved dramatically since the speed limit came into force, attracting a wider range of activity ranging from the WoW Festival and this year’s Lakes Alive programme to the Great North Swim.
“We now have the High Court’s endorsement for the kind of activity people would expect to find on England’s largest lake at the heart of a national park.”
However, the campaign groups said the judicial review will go ahead, and claimed the court had mislaid vital evidence from the group, which had not been seen by the judge. They say the court will give its verdict on the case within seven days.
Keep Windermere Alive describes itself as made up of individuals who have ‘seen their sport, interests and rights taken away by the Lake District National Park Authority’.
The group’s website says: “It’s [sic] aim to see the end of the 10mph speed limit on the lake and it’s [sic] replacement with an effective management solution that allows for the safe use of the lake by all groups and individuals as well as helping the local economy.”
In July 2007, the skipper of a boat towing Stockport-based blind water skier Gerald Price, 74, was interviewed after claims he had reached speeds up to 28mph on Windermere. Both Mr Price and Kevan Furber, the skipper of the boat, were members of Keep Windermere Alive.
The Piglit
09 March 2009Here's a compromise
1. Remove the speed limit altogether
2. Make the use of motorised vessels illegal
Gareth Edwards
19 May 2009The speed limit was never about safety - there's plenty of decent ways to meet an untimely end in the Lakes as elsewhere (e.g. crossing the road in Bowness).
It was about typical British grouches unhappy at the idea of anyone having fun (or more precisely, a type of fun not approved of by wierdos with beards).
A perfectly sensible compromise would have been to insist on power-boat drivers (esp. those towing skiers) to pass a safety test and obtain a license.
Incidentally- my sailing dinghy overturned with a broken mast in 1989 and I was rescued (and the boat saved) by a ski-boat.
Martin W
21 May 2009The Units Of Measurement Regulations require waterways speed limits to be in km/h (only road speed limits are allowed to use mph).
A Windermere speed limit of 10 mph would not survive a legal challenge.
Andrew Bartle
09 June 2009Firstly a little bit of background. I started water skiing at the age og 4 years on lake Windermere, i am now 40. I did this with another 3 familys, approximatly 15 peiople in tatal. For the last few years i have not skied at all and only visited windermre once per year with my family as it does not cater for my interests or requirements. I now have 5 children, 2 of which are at the age when they could learn to ski. I want to give my children the oppertunity to have an interest and a hobby for when they get older, i want to make sure i do everything to mitigate the risk of them falling in with the 'wrong' crowd, i want to give them the oppertunity to succeed and be safe in our ever changing word.
I do not confess to know the reasons why the limit on the Lake was reduced to 10 miles per hour, however it does seem to have been done with no real thought about the peoples lives that it would effect. From a commercial point of view it has had a dramatic effect on the local businesses, businesses that have been developed over the years through hard work, shedding blood and tears, many of these are now either out of business or struggling to make ends meet.
i can not understand why a common sense approach was not used. Lake Windermere is the largets lake in England, 12 miles long. Surely big enough to cater for everyone. why on earth was part of the lake not given a differnt speed limit of perhaps 20 miles per hour, still limiting the speed, but still adequate for the people who come to the lake to ski (and spend money in the local economy)instead of this broad brush approach which only caters for a few.
I would ask the National Park Authority to re-consider and look into ways a speed limit could work for everyone. i would ask them to think about the children they are stopping from learninmg new sports and hobbies and ask themselves would they want there children playing on the streets or getting involved in a sport and hobby that would stimulate them and keep them safe.
scott
21 August 2009why is it that its safe to ski on lake geneve lake tahoe lake como etc but only on lake windermere is it dangerous. and why when there are so many lakes in the national park cant the men with beards allocate different lakes for different sports. windermere for fun boats with engines up to 35mph, coniston for high speed freaks, a couple of lakes for jet skis and all the rest for rowing and sailing.
Conor M
23 August 2009Having been born and raised in Northern Ireland and then moving to England i can't help but notice the ridiculous approach taken by certain authorities over here who seem to exist just to spoil the fun for other people and claim that it is in the interest of the environment.
It was only about 5 years ago that i was introduced to a whole new world involving boats. My family bought a speed boat with the intention of using it on the river, however after being pulled over by the river authorities for exceeding the speed limit we were informed that there was both a speed limit and that a river liscence was also to be puchased at a cost of about £400.
After about a year of idleing up and down the river my dad decided that a trip back to Northern Ireland was required. We took the boat to a large lake called Lough Erne that resides in county Fermanagh were we were blessed with over 50 or so miles of lake water with no speed limit and at once noticed that the fuel bill for the boat had dramatically decreased with the increased speeds. I was introduced to waterskiing and immediately fell in love with it. The very same week we were pulled over by the lakeland authorities, not for speeding but because we did not have any numbers on the boat, we enquired as to how much the liscence was and were told it was absolutely free and after sorting out the forms recieved our liscence the next day.
My family has returned annually and has never looked back to boating in England, we now keep the boat at the lake and frequently go exploring on many of the lakes' 100 or so islands. There is no national speed limit on any of the rivers in northern ireland and there are only limits when entering areas such as the town centre enniskillen which holds a fantastic annual wakeboard competition.
If only the rest of the UK authorities would not give in to the environmental nutcases and see that people are capable of partaking in responsable and safe water based sports and would be very interested in bringing their business back to the local communities if only the government would let them.
I Lester
02 September 2009My family were regular users of Lake Windermere up until the 10 mph speed restriction. We, like many others spent our hard earned cash in Brownness’s restaurants and café’s. Bowness was a lively and enjoyable place to visit and spend leisure time.
After the ban, we moved to Abersoch and now spend most summer weekends there.
We recently took our boat to Loch Lomond for a week of fantastic boarding and skiing. I was taken back at the facilities on offer. It is FREE to launch, FREE to park your trailer and car. The slipways are wide and there are pre-launch and post recovery boat preparation areas. All the loch wardens and police were friendly and helpful.
It’s a great shame it takes so long to get there, otherwise we would go every weekend.
It’s an even greater shame that Windermere is now no longer able to offer these facilities and realise the revenue streams. In these tough economic times, it must also seem strange to people that The LDNPA can afford to ignore the financial impact of their decision let alone the loss of job creation opportunities. Why are such a small number of people allowed to take such an elitist stance when people’s livelihoods are at risk?
Gareth
16 September 2009Its just disappointing that the ban still exists!!
Its all about power happy people spoiling the fun for every one!!
Jason
25 November 2009As a previous avid skier I am now terribly disappointed that my children cannot follow in my footsteps. We have pictures around the house of various family members, some now sadly passed away, waterskiing on Windermere since the mid 60s. The kids stare enviously at them. I still search the internet periodically to find the real reason for the ban, but still to no avail. Really, the reason is not at all clear. Statistically, the sport was safe; the 'wash' of a boat (the Miss Cumbria comparison has already been well made) is equivalent to a large wave - a quick calculation says the shore of Windermere has so far withstood around 15,768,000,000 wind-driven waves of equal size since the last ice age (15 or so billion) so there is no discernable environmental impact other than the exhaust fumes that represent a tiny proportion of the emissions from Booths car park on a Saturday afternoon; and the noise? it is only apparent if observing from the immediate lake shore, a tiny strip of land almost half of which is serviced by heavy traffic. I am a reasonable man, but I simply do not understand the ban?! It is embarrassing to have to try to explain it to foreigners without sounding like this country has surrendered to a small group of elderly fanatics, and consequently resigned itself to the competitive scrap heap.
Ian
15 January 2010I wonder just how much the economy has suffered. OK so other 'one off' events are being held.
Good and so they should, they could still happen by 'GOOD' management. Fast boats, sail boats and swimmers could have co existed by 'GOOD' management.
I used to travel with my family and friends every weekend to our boat at Low Wood between April and October. Spend money in shops, restaurants, petrol stations, having my boat serviced etc. Since well before the 'ban' when I sold my boat because I did not want to go anywhere else with it I have NOT BEEN BACK.
I estimate I spent well over £5000 per year waterskiing around Winedermere, (and by the way I am not a rich priviliged person swanning around in a fancy boat just someone who enjoyed the area and waterskiing)
The noise from cars on the road past Low Wood always seemed to me to be greater than anything that came from the lake as motor boats passed by. So what is the real problem?
Give us who enjoyed the lake for so many years following our interests teh opportunity to return and enjoy it with everyone else.
Abbs
18 January 2010The ban's brilliant; the lake is quiet and the water is flat - perfect conditions for wakeboarding, something I still do every weekend in the summer. Long live the ban!
anybody who stops people doing what they want
06 March 2010the above comments are about right for these poeple who only care about themselfs which just shows you that N Parks are in charge of all we own .
Peter
26 April 2010Look. The speed limit issue is dead and buried, thank goodness.
Now we have the prospect of a zip-wire running down Fleetwith Pike!. Is this insanity, or what??
I'm sure there'll be a website soon called zipwirelakes.com or some thing similar.
The Lake District is a tiny, beautiful paradise. People fought long and hard to establish England's first National Park.
Let's keep it beautiful and unspoilt - for our children and our children's children.
Marc wallbank
18 May 2010The 10 mph speed limit.... joke or no joke....
As a user of the lakes and of the many surrounding towns and villages for almost 20yrs.I have seen dramatic changes over these many years regarding the speeds and craft in which use this beautiful waterway.I myself use a wind propelled yaught and easily reach speeds far exceeding this 10mph limit(would I get a speeding ticket for an act of god)with no auto engine shut off or means of bringing my speed down very very quickly in case of collision,I see myself as more of a hazard than the "crazy ski-ing and wakeboarding dudes" as some might say. After all these years I have always found that the powered watercraft have always been courtious and respect this speed limit on whenever passing or within close vicinity of any other craft regardless of shape or size.
This lake is albeit 12miles long and more than adequate to accomadate the fastest of craft,this could all be done by well managed zones for certain types of craft,let's say 20mph max for arguments sake,in designated areas this I see would not be any problem,let the fun be brought back to the lake district,let the watersport industry once again thrive,and once again do not let the people with straggly hair and fuzzy beards who sit behind desks who make laws,bylaws, rules and regulations once again spoil what we all can use accordingley,what is after the peoples,come on the national park heritage authority,shave you're heads shave you're beards get on a wakeboard and have some fun,after all we only live once!!!!!.
M.Smith
10 July 2010We have been boating on windermere (power) for about 12 years and considering there is only 1 public slipway it never seemed that busy only in the summer months at weekends and midweek was usually dead even in the summer.There must be a managable scheme where everyone can use the lake without conflict. We boat all year round and from october to march sometimes we don't see another boat when we are out on the lake so why does this need a speed limit. As usual you will get a few do gooders who think the ban is a cracking idea but if windermere wants to be a quiet tranquil place then the 10 mph speed limit on the lake is the last place to start perhaps motorbikes over 50cc should be banned and fell walking god knows how much damage that does to the enviroment.
Peter
09 August 2010I think many of the comments miss the point. I have grown up on Windermere and am a keen sailor and waterskier, and it was a great sadness when the speed restriction was applied as one of my great joys - waterskiing as the sunset on a calm evening - went forever (so it seems!).
But, the real issue was the jet skiers. On a narrow lake the jet skiers would zig - zag, wave and wake hopping. In 2002 I was driving our speedboat when a jet skier shot out from the blind side of a water taxi. I did a reflexive action and threw our boat through 90 degrees and the spray from the jet skiers soaked the family - it must have passed three feet away. The driver didn't see us until he'd gone past.
Both of us stopped, more in shock than anything. I went over slowly to "have a word" and the driver took off down the Lake. I chased him at around 35 mph but he must have been travelling at 45mph, as he disappeared into Bowness Bay.
I went round to the lake wardens who told me "it's a Police matter". I asked where the nearest Police were, and the warden replied "in Windermere town"!!
The failure to regulate jet-skiers was the only reason that many of us reluctantly supported the restriction - over time they ruined the enjoyment of the Lake and posed a serious threat to the safety of others (not to mention making a noise similar to a motorbike! In fact the similarity with motor bike riders and their disregard for safe speed is quite marked),
Peter
Motorcycleboy
05 October 2010Although I am not a water skier I am interested in the issues surrounding the 10mph speed limit in lake Windermere because there are parallels with the access problems experienced by those, like me, into green road driving in the national parks. The drivers have been at loggerheads with the Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority for the past fourty years and there appears to be no end in sight to the conflict. Recently the driver's organisation LARA succeeded in obtaining a judgement in a judicial review that would have opposed the NPA making permanent full time traffic restraint orders in some of their green roads. There is also a parallel here with the way the YDNPA refuses to engage in dialogue with the driver's organization and will not consider any other management options rather than banning. They also use their rangers to stop drivers who do not respect the TROs and report them to the authorities. About 30 have been fined already.
I believe the origin of such conflicts is not that these acrtivities are really so threatening to the 'special qualities' of the national parks, but is rather due to overcrowding. What has lead me to this conclusion is that I regularly drive in the green roads of Ireland where everything is Hunky Dory. There are no silly rules, no one is trying to ban it and there are no conflicts with other user groups. Even in the Wicklow Mountains national park there are no problems.
It seems to me that with over a thousand craft in one lake during the weekend an activity that involves speed and requires a lot of space is bound to cause conflict. The LDNPA has made it clear that the ban is intended to enhance the amenity of the lake for the non motorised users so obviously they are trying to resolve the conflict by excluding the activity that they consider less legitimate. I think that if the water skiers had understood the pressures caused by overcrowding they would have seen the sense of avoiding Lake Windermere during weekends.
Hooky
31 October 2010As a 52 year old man who has water skied for over 35 years and actualy skied on the final weekend of Ullswater when we were told you have Windermere which wont be taken from you, I am disgusted how we have been treat. My kids grew up water ski-ing and were at tournament level until ruined by the ban. For the record I also sail and owned both a 27' yacht and a ski boat both of which were used by the family on the lake. On the arrival of the speed limit we moved both craft from the lake on principle and I have visited the area only once since. I used to be at Windermere every weekend with the kids either staying on the yacht or in our caravan so you can see we spent a lot of money on the lake. I agree with the comments that better management of the lake should have been in place and a TOTAL ban of jet skis, a lot of riders who I found very irresponsible and wreckless.
Why cant the powers that be see the light and replace the ban with restrictions, I for one would return to the lake (even though its a lot cheaper for me ski-ing locally).
I would have no objection to a compulsory driver licensing with a 3 offences and you are off the lake for life type law.
graham malam
30 May 2011having enjoyed many holidays , weekends on the lake, we spent thousands of pounds on fuel, food, eating out , leisure acc etc, i can honestly say give the lake to the slow boating people, who dont spend a dime, who want to sit there reading there secondhand books, munching on their home made sarnies, we have now bought a place on the bay of st tropez , use are boat , comply to local regs , and to most of all in brilliant weather and loads of sunshine even in winter,so i may finish off and say stick your lake were the sun doesnt shine, and we all know were that is ,,its lake windermere, and the people that begrudge us power boaters using it,
Henre
02 July 2011It seems that everyone has something to say from both sides of the fence. There is a simple solution.
Sundays no powered craft
Monday yachts go mad
Tuesday jet ski go mad
Wednesday powerboats go mad
Thursday wake boarding
Friday river cruise
Saturday all craft with speed limit
It took me a hole 2 minutes to come up with this.
Seems very simple or am I missing the point.
jason
06 July 2011my name is jason i am 41 years old it was a sad day for me when the ban came in force as from about 4 years old i spent nearly every weekend on lake windermere with family and friends and learnt to water ski at a young age
all we went up to do was water ski and as i grew older visit the local pubs etc we spent a lot of money in the town of boness every week ,we used to keep our boat on the lake through the summer .all the ban has done is stop me spending money in the area .what i can say is that water skiers are responsable people.what i think caused the ban was jet skis they were a pain in the ass noisey and the just used to drive to fast and get to close to use skiers in my opinion what they should do is if you water ski thats fine if not then stick to the 10 mph we could live with that . i hav 2 yong boys now and hope 1 day to see them ski on the lake .i hav recently got a power boat just like what the warden used to hav and once its ready i will be going on the lake and belive me i will be seeing how fast it will go and proberly go sking as well and stick 2 fingers up to the do gooders that got the speed limit put on the lake.in all the years we were up there i never came across any problems with skiers all friendly and if you broke down some one would tow u in .well its about time they sorted this out its not rocket sicence it could be managed quite easy the lake is big enough i bet the people that voted to put a speed limit on the lake hav never done watersking or are even from the area if they were ther would not be a 10 mph limit thats enough from me now
Phil S
24 July 2011My Name is Phil,
Why not up the speed limit to 30 mph then this would satisfy the skiers and wake boarders, it would bring lots of trade to the areas again which lets face it, it does need this incomes off traders must have suffered badley over the years.
As for the jet ski crowds 30 mph would be ok for them to, well, for the sensible ones any how, but would distract the idiots from coming on to the lakes.
yours sincerely
Phil S
Wigan
David Walker
27 July 2011I have been using the lake since the early 80's for both Skiing, Yachting & Sports Cruising - The fact that the 10mph was brought in after the immortal words 'There will never be a speed limit on Windermere' were uttered is a little ironic to say the least.
I am all for safe use of the lake as are all my friends, we are all berthed on Windermere with Sports Cruisers with respectable jobs/businesses who in turn put money back into the area generally as we all spend our weekends/holidays there.
Why can we not satisfy all sides of this burocracy, and ensure jet ski's / bikes are banned entirely ( As these people are mostly smash & grab users ) and have portions of the lake made available for the likes of myself & wake boarders / skiiers.
Sure we can have an Airshow with the environmentallists staying quiet over the fuel vapours/pollution from the aircraft doing circa 250mph at 150ft above the water - YET civilised power boat owners cannot exceed 10mph !!! When will these 'fun police' learn that a boat on the 'plane' causes less wake than when displacing, thus using more fuel.
Please - wake up................................................
David.
roy lowe
25 September 2011my comments are inline with david walker,i too started boating on the lake in 1980 and this continued until 2008 when i had a mooring for my cruiser at ambleside, prior to the restriction i had a modest sports/ski boat and had many enjoyable times with my family ,some of whom still visit the lakes. unfortuately not everyone is sensible and i have witnessed some horrific acts of stupidy particularly from jet skiers and posers in speed boats that gave us all a bad name, I'm all for the speed restriction ban being lifted but only when they introduce strict tests for powerboat drivers as it makes no sense to me that someone can just get into a high powered boat without any experience, they can't go on the road without passing a test so it makes for common sense that a nautiucal test to drive powerboats should be compulsory, I think that this is the real problem and not the erosion and pollution issues that have been used as an excuse , i found that most of the yachties to be arrogant and the ban must be heaven sent for them as they have always disliked the power boats and do have alot of support from the authorities that intigated the ban.
john wellens
12 October 2011i recently bought a powerboat and decided to use it on the lake , i was warned about the speed limit but was told buy friends that if you found a quiet corner you could have a play so to speak and i have found this to be the case . i found the wardens at ferry nab to be very helpfull . last weekend though on coniston i was seen to be speeding , but at the time it was raining and there was,nt a sole on the lake as i always check as not to endanger any one else , again though i was polite to the wardens and was let on my way with some helpful advice or as i would call this COMMON SENSE . im a big lad and know right from wrong i should be able to choose not some bureacrat from london . iff people act stupidly on the lakes then ban them but lets have a bit of live and let live . SORT IT OUT SO WE CAN ALL HAVE FUN . big john , slowing down from middleton
jrd
06 November 2011Further to John above.
I bought a speedboat from Shepherds Marina earlier this year and have used it several times on Lake Windermere, spending hard earn brass in the hotels and local economy.
I was caught for speeding in July (16.40hrs Friday afternoon with the wife), I was pulled over by the warden, I admitted that I knew the lake speed limit and that I was speeding. I was not going daft or anything like that, just going from Ambleside back to Bowness to take the boat off the lake. I have my skippers licence and was obeying all the boating rules, except the speed limit although I was not going flat out.
I was courtious at all times which he thanked me for, he said I may or may not be prosecuted but I have now rec'd a court summons to appear at Kendal Magiatrates court on the 22nd November.
This is the 1st time i've been stopped by a warden and was wondering if maybe I should have said I was not speeding and did not know what the limit was.
Does anyone know what the warden/lakes policy is with regards to procecusions, I've haerd that most people get let off with a warning, 3 warnings then you're procecuted?
The boat is back at Shepherds next weekend for some warranty work and winterisation but will not be back on the lake anymore. I'm going elswhere from now on.
You could say I'm alittle p****d o*f to say the least.
James
25 June 2012jrd, i too have been summoned to court! My hearing is next month. I was wondering if i could speak with you as your story appears very similar to mine. Any chance you could contact me? 07800 774627 or james_roberts74@hotmail.com. It would be greatly appreciated.
dave
07 December 2012Please sign this government e-petition to reconsider more viable options of a variable speed limit on Lake Windermere to facilitate safe watersports and revitalise the economy around Lake Windermere. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38359
Stewart
20 December 2012As someone who used to ski between 1963 - 1965 on Windermere at speeds up to about 40 mph, as fast as the boat would go, I find this speed limit quite crazy! Obviously nobody can ski successfully at 10 mph!
Even back then they had lake wardens who would pull you over if you were creating any hazard to other lake users, and that seemed to work fine.
I recall no incidents of people being hurt and we used to be there skiing almost every weekend throughout the summer months and even up until November in some years.
In those years the lake was very busy with many waterskiers being pulled around by Albatross inboard speed-boats which were very popular - anyone remember them? - lovely boat and pretty fast.
Ah, well - British authority seems to be populated by 'weird beard' killjoy types today - good luck to 'em!