When there is a will do do something, politicians will find a way, as evidenced by the ingenuity displayed in claiming their expenses. The fact that there is so much political debate and so little action re English Mountain Rescue funding is an indication that there is insufficient political motivation to improve the situation, and many of the responses (in Hansard)to the issue appear to be 'jobsworth.'
The government do indeed appear to have 'lost the plot' (as suggested by Lord Addinton)as indeed they did over the Gurkhas.

How surprising!!! This PM does not recognise anything that does not directly affect him. It is very easy to hide behind so called EU rules. Other countries seem to have no difficulty ignoring EU rules when it is in their national interest. As usual they have not even responded accurately to the petition. Which world do politicians live in? I know - one where fiddling mortgages is acceptable if you are a politician and amking bundles on expenses but doing something worthwhile is beneath you!

After reading the government’s reply to the e-petition on Friday 26 June 2009, which referred to;

“We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to give VAT exemptions to the Mountain Rescue Service on all of their spending”

When you have had dealings with government Ministers and their respective departments on the question of tax exemptions (VAT, VED, and Fuel Tax), you can predict, with the accuracy of night following day that the same monotonous government phraseology will be used in answering questions, or not as the case may be.

The answer given to this e-petition is no different. First the government tells you the obvious, that certain items and services are free of VAT, they then go on to say that gift aid is another advantage and that charities can reclaim 28p in the £1 from the government on donations received.

Gift Aid is a wonderful scheme, but only if the money comes from a known source. Collection boxes, “rattling tins” at supermarkets, flag days, etc etc, this money is not from a known source and therefore does not fall within the gift aid regulations.

The government is quiet right that VAT legislation is the responsibility of the European Commissionaire for Tax and Customs Union and it is with this in mind that the MR (E&W) Fundraising Committee has a “Tax / VAT Exemption Document” before the European Commissionaire, for VAT to be removed from all goods and services purchased by MR and Cave rescue teams.

It so happens that a European review of VAT is taking place during this year (2009), and a decision should be made early in 2010.

However we think the UK government could do more to help MR. First we have asked them to support our VAT exemption project in Europe and secondly we have quoted that at an; “International Philanthropic Conference in 2004, it was suggested that there was no current avenue under legislation for charities to be exempted from VAT, but there was ample scope and precedent for individual governments to repay tax levied on charities”

We have suggested to the UK government that they might like to adopt this idea and refund all taxes back to MRTs. The Fundraising Committee, we already have a very accurate tax figure of what teams pay the government per year. So far, our suggestion has fallen on deaf ears but we are pursuing the matter and will keep MRTs informed.

Stewart Hulse MBE
Andy Simpson
Richard Longman

MREW Fundraising Committee
26 June 2009

I have responded directly to an email I received from 10 Downing Street and would urge others to do the same although I doubt this useless PM would even bother to read anything that doesnt enhance his salary or allow him to cling on to his job.Gordon first last and always.I pointed out that Mountain Rescue teams save the Government millions of pounds each year and that people who donate to MRTs have already paid tax on the money they donate.I sincerely hope he never breaks a leg on the hills on a day that is declared a national holiday for MRTs.Bill Pattison MBE.

Investigations by Westmorland MP Tim Farron into the EU position suggests that the Prime Minister is not correct and that it would be possible to achieve a change. But the Government has failed to respond properly (not just here) to Tim's research.

Tony Greaves

I have only questions:
Are MRTs short of cash?
How much would VAT exemption save the teams?
Why should MRTs receive special treatment compared to other charities?

The Downing Street reply is a fob-off, full of waffle that obscures the answer, and does not answer the direct question why MRTs cannot be treated on the same basis as the RNLI. But no surprise - what benefit was there to the PM in saying yes?

Its about time the Welsh MRT's de-linked themselves from England and went it alone - then there may be a chance of getting funding from the Welsh Assembly Government, especially as we move inexorably towards full nation status and possible independence. There are many areas and institutions where Wales needs to shrug off the colonial yoke and make its own way in a new, flexible and innovative manner, striving for world class ways of working. Dewch flaen boys!

The stance taken by the British government in refusing to make the charitable work of Mountain Rescue VAT-exempt is open to two objections. One: "where there's a will, there's a way". If the government was disposed to do this for MR work, it could do so by enacting a new rule to this effect. Recall its recent proposals to limit trial by jury and other long-standing human right when national security is believed to be at stake. Evidently, our government has no will to make MR work VAT-exempt. Now why is that? Either it wants to, but can't afford to; or it simply does not want to at all. Both alternatives are open to the second objection. Someone has to do the work that MR teams currently do; there is an obligation for somebody — or some body — to take action when human lives are at stake. If MR teams did not exist to do this work, this obligation would fall on the government. In turn, there would be consequential costs to be met by the government in that "who wills the end, wills the means". The stance taken by our government implies that it is content to have it both ways, neither taking on this work itself [and that is fine], but nor seriously contributing to this obligatory work undertaken by others, notably MR teams [that is contemptible].

Actually, charity work always has some obligations behind it — education, health, human development, and so on — and these are all to the good. But there are degrees of goodness. [i] Where on the scale is the charitable work of Eton College to be placed? [ii] Armed with your answer, is MR work lower or higher on the scale? Does charitable work aimed at improving education have exactly the same value as that of MR teams who take action to save human lives that would otherwise lead to certain death? Apparently, the government believes that saving life is supremely important internationally and nationally [Armed Forces, Security Services, Police, Fire, Ambulance]. Why, then, is MR work excluded? And to repeat: who wills the end, wills the means.

Our Cabinet is now meeting at selected locations around Britain. My suggestion is that its next meeting should be somewhere above the 900m contour on Scafell Pike, Snowdon, or Ben Nevis in inclement weather, firstly just for the experience, and secondly to ascertain whether assistance is required to get back down to sea-level, or even at all. Now then: who would willingly offer to do that at his or her own expense?

quote...."There are a number of VAT reliefs available to charities providing rescue and first aid services, including VAT zero-rating for certain specialist telecommunications, aural, visual, light enhancing or heat detecting equipment....unquote. Apart from radios & associated equipment which is eleigible for vat relief how many other SAR teams have bought any of the other stuff mentioned in notice 701/6. My lowland search dog team were denied vat relief on floodlights and Satmap10 navigation devices recently because they are ordinarily supplied for general use. But most of the kit we buy IS designed for general public use. No vat relief on PPE eg helmets, goggles, gloves or coveralls. No vat relief on clothing, compasses, torches, batteries, dog harnesses, life jackets, throw lines, in other words all the kit the public might use for work or rcreation but what we use in our voluntary SAR work. Give us a break Gordon !!!!!

I have spent many years, until a few months ago, as Treasurer of one of the cave rescue teams, but am now in exile. I can report that most of the costs of the team are not tax exempt, and most of the income is not gift-aidable. Money largely comes from events organised by team members, and from anonymous donations. What it is spent on is largely caving and climbing equipment, and more mundane but equally vital things. VAT exemption would make a huge difference to the operating economics of a team, but the value of the exemption will still be tiny compared to the value of the time given freely by the team members. Nobody I know is asking to be paid, but it would be nice for the Government to treat the teams with the respect and recognition that they deserve.

The man is an idiot, these people give up their free time in the dead of night and bleakest of winters , provide themselves with their 'uniforms and equipment' including their pagers and yet wont allow them a little bit of tax relief to help them out , the mind boggles, yet if you work in the nhs you can get tax relief on laundering your uniform which is provided (not that im against this) but crikey moses cut these men and women some slack!!!!