It is disappointing, but hardly surprising, that the session is closed to those legitimate users of vehicles on the small amount of legal routes left open after NERC. It might be useful to hear from representatives of responsible trail users such as the Trail Riders Fellowship rather than exclude all vehicle users as idiots on "scramble bikes".

Also why not read out some of the findings of the Faber Maunsell report on recreational vehicle use - it is available on the Defra website. This report showed that the facts about lane damage are hugely different to the version spouted out by the Ramblers Association and it's pals in the National Parks. Of course the report didn't come out with the results that Jim Knight et al wanted so was scrapped - so much for truthful reporting!

Why not also discuss how the TRF are actively assisting in the maintenance of green lanes across the country and how more communicative National Parks, such as the The Lake District, are operating a Hierarchy System to provide legitimate recreational access to routes at certain times. It is worth remembering that only the legal and responsible riders are put off by blanket TRO's and the deliberate misuse of laws which allow the closure of ancient vehicular byways; the idiots (of which there are plenty) will continue just the same.

The Yorkshire Dales National Park forgets that when trail riders come to the Dales they bring their wallets whilst the Ramblers bring a picnic!

For what it's worth I am both walker and rider and I meet idiots in both camps but I have yet to be threatened by an ill-informed trail rider. Walkers need to be aware that the tiny, tiny percentage of legal lanes open to vehicles are legitimate and they should not threaten responsible users with their silly ski poles or they may find themselves having them surgically removed from their nether regions.

Typical answer from that type of person. Obviously he thinks his money can ride rough shod over everything. I for one would ban him and his wheels from all footpaths and lanes within the countryside. It is criminal the destruction that these type of people are doing to our heritage. He should be given a rural ASBO and barred from our green and pleasant land.

"ancient vehicular byways" kind of oxymoronic eh? or do you still try and justify ripping paths up by saying a precedent was set by roman carts?

- I for one have been threatened by more than one trail rider on more than one occasion - you don't like your reg. plates being photographed, do you?

oh yes, apostrophes, like trail bikes just don't belong in some places...

"Typical answer from that type of person" - Mr. Stuart seems to adequately represent the small minded ignorance of the walking mafia all by himself. I am already (rightly) banned from footpaths when riding my motorcycle and anyone doing so should indeed be given a rural ASBO (?). I confine my use to those few remaining legal routes.
I strongly resent your implication that I am a "type" of person but I do understand from reading your ill-informed diatribe what type you are. Just for the record I have lived my entire life in the country in rural communities where good natured sharing of the lanes has always been the norm, but that was prior to the influx of bobble-hatted townies.

Mr. Jones should locate the shift key on his keyboard before giving (incorrect) grammatical pointers. You may photograph my registration plate any time at all because you will never see my bike on an illegal lane. However, if you do so rudely or aggressively, or in any way attempt to block my legal passage you will need that surgical assistance I mentioned before.

Why can't these walkers behave with some dignity and intelligence and realise that footpaths are for feet and legally appointed routes for vehicles are JUST THAT!
Having gained sole access to almost every country area (incorrectly in my opinion) as there doesn't appear to be much courage amongst our legislators who cave in to "Mass minions" instead of studying the facts, the walking brigade have become little dictators. This is both alarming and incredible from people who, in the main have made no contribution whatsoever to the countryside, and further, have no respect for those who have spent their lives upholding it.
I would add that I am not referring to genuine walkers who enjoy their pursuit, but rather to the "organised riff-raff" for whom I would suggest a badge logo -
"I WANT EVERYTHING I WANT IT NOW AND I WANT IT FOR NOWT"

At last - an intelligent response. It will fall on stoney ground I'm afraid, the bobble hats prevent all Rambliars from hearing anything but their own biased fibs. They won't want to believe this article either -

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/EstateAndEnvironment/ArmyPilotsHelpRepairLakeDistrictFootpaths.htm

"The three Gazelle helicopters and ten soldiers from 6 Flight Army Air Corps, the Territorial Army element of 7 Regiment Army Air Corps, are spending five days on the fells in Cumbria. Each year for the last 15 years, the unit has deployed to the region to assist in moving stones onto the fells to shore up the footpaths."

These are paths used only by walkers which have to be repaired every year with the use of helicopters and army personnel because of the damage done by walkers boots. Can you imagine the mass hissy fit which Janet Street-Porter and her ski-pole carrying hordes would have if someone dared suggest that they shouldn't use these paths? The Faber Maunsell report showed that more damage was done by walkers then by recreational vehicle use but, as I said before (to deaf ears) the report was binned because the Labour Party and the Rambliars didn't like the truth. They should swap the bobble hats and Berghaus labels for german helmets and SS insignia!

What a selfish person you are Pete Stuart. You really must learn to share and also get your facts right.
The countryside is for everyone not just selfish Ramblers.
You just about sum up the RA: me me me me me me me m me me me me me me me me me me me me me me m me me me me me me me me me me me me

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I enjoy walking, spend a lot of time around Snowdonia especially. I also enjoy my trail bike's and riding off road.
I am a country boy through and through and have lived my life in the hill's of Wales.
If you want to see erosion you only have to look where the walkers go. Paths are layed and because they are hard to walk on people walk to side of them causing even more erosion. A good example of this is leading up to Llyn Idwal and up to Devil's Kitchen etc etc.
The amount of rubbish left by a certain type of walker is disgusting aswell. The last time i was up on the top of Tryfan i found all sorts of Rubbish and i know it was'nt left by anyone on a trail bike.
If we all just shared the countryside and got on with each other (which we generally do, it's only the odd militant that causes the trouble) we would find that we actually manage to keep the countryside open for all of us. Believe me, the time is coming when we won't be allowed to use our countryside for recreation due to the over population of this country (this is the main problem, over population).

Ramblers...always quick to see the worst of anyone...

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/stroud/news/Dog-walker-attacked-woman/article-944751-detail/article.html

when I worked in farming they used to complain about tractors and sheep

I served on a local acccess forum for two years and if there was one thing that united all users and land owners was the arrogant attitude of ramblers. Not I hasten to add the occasional walker but the pole carrying, bobble hatted official brigade. The sponsoring council also couldn't stand them but of course they were bound by the rules to give them equal airtime.

The thing that strikes you when you meet them up close is how much time they must have to lobby MPs and other elected officials, a spell having to earn a living like the rest of us might help. Where I live at the the moment they all park their cars quite close when they come on an organised walk, I may start a campaign banning them from the country lanes.

A few politically active Ramblers have become a destructive and corrosive influence within the RA and the countryside...come on RA leadership.....

Ban them!

I don't see why Ramblers don't have to apply for a permit to use some of these long distance paths. They were never designed for the thousands of recreational users that use them. These users should be contributing to the upkeep of said paths. There is also the matter of all the litter that gets left behind is some of the remote places these people visit.

Maybe we should charge them to park at the end of the paths. £20:00 a day would seem like a fair amount. Then use the money to pay for the repairs.....

'PeteStuart Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Typical answer from that type of person. Obviously he thinks his money can ride rough shod over everything. I for one would ban him and his wheels from all footpaths and lanes within the countryside. It is criminal the destruction that these type of people are doing to our heritage. He should be given a rural ASBO and barred from our green and pleasant land.'

Evert time the Rambler's open their mouth, they reminds us how selfish they really are.

I recently came across a group of walkers who were only too glad to have a small group of trail bike riders passing by at the time that one of their group had suffered from a serious injury. The bike riders were adequately equipped to be able to help the person in distress and when offered some kind of reward asked that it be paid towards the Air Ambulance that was pinpointed onto the site by the bikers, who were able to pass on the exact position.
I am sure that if it had been the 'Ramblers Association' representative that had suffered the injury, that the bike riders would not have shown any descrimination. It is situations like these that pull human beings together to help each other.