Directly across from the site of the proposed zip wire are the remains of the slate workings including man made roads, rail tracks and other various lumps of metal. What bigger impact on the environment could you have than a slate mine! The problem the Friends of the Lake District have is that they still think that the Lakes is the Domain of the landed gentry, Wordsworth and Beatrix Potter. A sadly delusional viewpoint unfortunately and hugely blinkered. How about making a stand against a real issue like the proposed nuclear storage, RAF jets ripping up the skies, the slow demise of Hill farming and many other Lakeland traditions. Well done Sir Chris for making a stand, poor Mark Weir must be spinning in his grave!

This is such a pity. How many under 50s, let alone under 25s, were part of decision making? It is man (and woman) that made the landscape.

correct decision. precious landscape like this must be protected. if chris bonington can't see that, then the friends, and the lake district as a whole is better off without him

Although many people, perhaps understandably, have the superficial impression that Honister Crag is an industrial site, it is in fact one of the wildest cliffs in England.

The site is an SSSI primarily because it is a stronghold of an extremely scarce vegetation community that is both extremely vulnerable to disturbance and, in terms the area it covers at Honister, unique south of the border.

Most of the broad ledge systems you see as you look up at the crag from the road carry extensive stands of what's known as 'Tall herb' communities. These are scarce habitat types, related to the alpine meadows of continental Europe. They are typically found on un- or lightly grazed upland cliff ledges, and restricted to base-rich substrates and sheltered situations.

Tall herb is highly valued for both representing one of the few totally natural habitats surviving in Britain and for providing a refuge for rare, grazing-sensitive, montane plants. As you can imagine, the bulk of the habitat - which is never abundant anywhere in the UK, is to be found in the Scottish Highlands. Honister is therefore outstanding in possessing a relative large amount of these plant communities; it is likely to possess more than half the Tall Herb to be found south of the border.

Unfortunately, it is incredibly easy to scuff away the plant cover by repeated footfall. The reason Honister Crag is such a stronghold is that the steep north-facing cliff ledges have been mostly inaccessible to grazing animals and humans, apart from, until now, the occasional adventurous scrambler or climber.

The advent of the cableways and stapled rock that the Honister company have put in has changed all that however and the reason why the company got fined nearly £30,000 by Natural England was because they originally put in a new 'Via Ferrata' without consultation - which resulted in a large amount of damage to the Tall herb stands.

This is why controversy over the proposed zip wire development isn't just about aesthetics - increasing the numbers of people traversing formerly untrodden ground is going to increase the risk of degrading an already-threatened part of our natural heritage. (The new application advocated using the existing Via Ferratae to gain access to the launching point - which itself would have been constructed on the Crag itself, rather than on the summit slopes as in the previous application. Implicit in the application therefore is that there would have been a large increase in users and therefore potential footfall in sensitive areas).

There are many other places in the Lakes where zipwires could – and have been – constructed without serious ecological damage. Unfortunately Honister isn’t one of them.

visual impact - given that the fells around Buttermere & Derwent water are in cloud for half of the year thats not really a reason to turn it down.

tourism impact - how can it have a negative impact? surely it would bring MORE people in, keen to try out the longest U.K. zip-line.

I walked all the Wainwrights last year, that was the reason I came to the lakes. If there was a zip there it would not have put me off.. Its complete nonsense to turn it down for aesthetic reasons too.. You'd only see it from a few limited spots and there would be very little metal work anyway.. The mining scars and the rolls of discarded fencing scattering the hills blight the hills far more - maybe the friends of the LD should get out there and tidy that lot up first..

Keswick Town Council supported the application. Not one under 50 among them! Don't make assumptions Lynda.

dont be ageist, i'm 67 this year, love the lakedistrict, go there most weekends, and would go on this zipwire if it were open. do these so-called "friends of the lakedistrict" want anything that is not wooly, green or inert to not be seen in the fells? the whole slate mine area is an industrial site for heavens sake. do they want all of the tarmac roads to be ripped up as they also encourage 'the wrong sort of person' to 'their' lake district.
good luck to the mine people with an appeal.

Anyone can see in this Battle that what is going on is not for the benefit of the Lakes but a power struggle, a desire to impose control.

If you stop and think for a minute none of the things we do in the Lakes now are Natural, Herds of people tramping the hills damage more than any planned Zip wire would.

Look at Europe, the have progress, Skiing, cable cars, huts and more, working with the Enviroment.

This just shows how out of touch the "Friends of the Lake District" are. I would hate to meet the "Enemies of the Lake District"

It smacks of fogeyism of the worst kind. This would have brought a new young clientèle to the Lakes - desperately needed. The "Friends" want to seal the Lakes in aspic.

Well done, Sir Chris. Desert the out of touch fools. They should be disbanded.

Here here geraldr! Lets just stop people from walking anywhere in the lakes just incase it disrupts anything. From all that I have read the Honister slate mine have been very careful to ensure there was minimal impact on the environment when building the via ferrata and I do believe that a zip wire is mostly in the air, no? The BBC also states that the new zip wire would replicate a similar construction that existed there more than 80 years ago so it technically would just be rebuilding a little bit of history with a modern appeal.
I have been a devoted lover of the lakes for over 16 years now and this would only make me want to visit more often. My father has climbed all of the Wainwrights and loves the natural beauty of the fells but still feels this would be a great addition to the area.
I think that Mark Weir did wonders for the lakes and its tourism by bringing the incredible and awe inspiring mine back to life and for this I think we owe him a little something in return don't you think?

Who wants to listen to hundreds of people shrieking as they zipwire down the side of a mountain? Not for me.

We first heard about the zip wire when a group of us completed the via Ferrata a few years ago. What a fantastic experience, the most challenging thing I have ever done! Whilst there, we witnessed the character Mark Weir land his helicopter, nip in the office and take off again within about 10 minutes. This guy lived life in the fast lane! Not long after we were really sad to hear of his death. I cannot believe the plans for the zip wire have been turned down again. I would like to know how many of these 'friends' of the Lakes were actually born and bred there? Everyone we know who has any opinions on this all agree it would be a great thing to experience.
By the way, I am a 50+

I have watched Honister slate mine grow from a derelict site to what we see today and what the later Mark Weir and family have created there is something that the "national park" and the "friend of the lakes" should be proud of and support fully, in my eyes honister is one of the wonders of the lake the history and heritage there should be preserved.......? For future generation. Its was here long before national parks and is part of the national parks history.

The zipwire. What a tourist attraction this would be and increase visitor number which the area depends on thus increasing the economy of the area, I can't see how the proposed zipwire and the now moved Via Feratta (moved to protected the rare plants) are going to damage them further. the proposed zipwire is a very imaginative way of recreating something that was there as part of the mine and is part of lakeland mining history and heritage. See link
http://around-england.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Lancaster-aerial-flight.jpg
As for the visual impact theres is already a zipwire high on the crag which is not visible to the naked eye from the valley inless you know where it is.

I think the national park have been short sighted in turning this down, surely they should look at all aspects of this conservation, lakeland heritage and tourism and find a way that they all work in harmony for the benefit of the national park, conservation, tourism and the economy . I really hope that honister slate mine appeal and carry on Marks Vision

"The decision reaffirms the previous refusal, recognising that recreational activities reliant on man-made infrastructure and harmful to the landscape"
Best dig up all the man-made footpaths then.

As a rock climber, I suppose I am adding to the intrusion of humans into a wild area, and potentially damaging some of the rare plants that grow at Honister. It is, however, not a popular crag, and whenever I have been, there have only ever been a handful of people there. In spite of the road below, it has a remote feel that many other Lakeland crags do not have, and one thing that was noticeable last time I was there, was the noise caused by the via feratta - in particular the constant screaming of the clients, which seemed most inappropriate., and was distracting and disconcerting.

A lot has been said above about the need to attract more visitors to the Lake District. I'm not sure that this is the case - rather that the Lakes are suffering from a surfeit of visitors. Choked roads, eroded paths, hordes of people in huge, brightly clothed groups and the increasing gentrification of towns such as Keswick with its proliferation of expensive shops, hotels and restaurants. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find the quiet, unspoiled places that many of us crave. There are other places where activities such as zip wires could be sited, such as the previously mentioned forests. Unfortunately this development is proposed by a specific family, on the back of the previously developed mine, and, as such, has to be in this location, not miles away. A great job was done, restoring the mine and it's old traditions and offering a tourist attraction appropriate to the already industrialised landscape. Everything else is the result of the rather off the wall ideas of a talented, charismatic but somewhat eccentric man. They should have ended with his passing.

good on yer sir chris...oh the short sighted fools....

Friends of the Lake District and Friends of the Peak District are very powerful groups whose sole aim is to prevent any sort of enjoyment of the National Parks unless it entails carrying two ski poles and wearing a bobble hat. They do everything they can to remove legal rights of way and anything deemed by them to be "damaging". In the meantime legions of ramblers trample wider and wider footpaths which have to be repaired each year by having helicopters fly in stone for paving. They won't be happy until the only sound you hear in a National Park is the chinless guffawing of ramblers enjoying a picnic they have brought with them, while the local pubs, shops and garages go bust. When you have "Friends" like these, who needs enemies.

they allowed ski lifts up skiddaw and helvelyn 1900-1960 its a load of ballocks tot to allow modernism in the lake district , esp when it will make many familys happy . chris bonnington was right to champion this cause and he is a key to the next appeal being won , in my opinion an appeal could well win . This will split the lake district for many years to come if it is not settled in favor of honister quarry . What is ground breaking is jan wear unstinted will to not give up . we are all with her and supporting this very brave woman and her family symon brown

This could even be construde as an art installation !!

Perhaps I should have mentioned in my past above that I was climbing on Buckstone How, across the valley from Honister Crag.

About time someone formed a real charity representing the interests of the real people who live here. Perhaps call it the Real Friends of the Northern Lake District. Oh, and a PS. One of the Parish Council's negative submissions was based on their "understanding" that Hoister's lease was up for renewal. This is entirely false. How can the Planning Authority expct to be taken seriously when it can't even ensure that the submissions (apparently received as Gospel) are even factually accurate.

Not only would this have brought work to a few local people it would have been an attraction that brought more people to the lake District inproving their income from the main sourse of revenue other that the Nuclear Power site. I know which I would have preferred if I lived locally.
I could understand that anybody living within a couple of miles of the site might object to the noise but would this amount to 10 people in total.
This is typical of a "Friends of Organisation" which is frequently made up of people who have retired with nothing else to do but stop the rest of us enjoying ourselves and often as not are incommers to the are they are supposed to be Friendly too thus depriving locals of access to housing they can afford.
Well done Sir Chris, and like you not only am I over 50 I'm also over 60, still young in mind and heart if not body.

What gets me is not necessarily the fact I want to see a zip wire built although I do think the National Park has to ensure it's more than a 'living museum' and that it supports ways of increasing local employment. No, it's the hypocrisy. What about the insidious spread of inshore wind farms that blot much more beautiful landscapes than Honister. And nuclear waste disposal. There's talk of using Ennerdale and even taking out some areas of the National Park to get planning permission (see link http://www.noend.org.uk/Index.htm).

Ruth I've been up Honister loads of times and never heard screaming clients in fact when I've watched people on the via feratta from the old Dale Head workings and their so small as to be invisible. The only chocked road I ever come across is Windermere to Ambleside perhaps a bypass is in order. As to the hordes of people in brightly coloured clothing, well it's there right to be there. And finding a quiet spot in the Lakes is easy, don't go to the honey pot spots. I'm in the Lakes most weekend and have no trouble what so ever finding lovely quiet places to walk or have a brew.

Good for Sir Chris and best wishes to all the eccentrics in the world.

Such a disappointment. National park = museum for crusty old bobble hatters.

Honister and the immediate surrounding area clearly has an industrial past - you can see old roads, tracks, mine entrances all around the area. It is also an isolated, remote area with very few dwellings that are not farms. It is difficult to get there, the roads are narrow, steep and twisty. People go to Honister to visit the mine, do the Via Ferrata and have a coffee but also to park to get a decent way up a mountain without having to do the walking giving amazing access to some of the highest peaks we have. It is not somewhere you would come across by accident. If you are going there you know a bit about what it is and have an expectation of a bit of industry. I spend lots of time in the hills and the only real noise I have ever heard around Honister is when the car rally goes through, which is nothing to do with the mine.
I am surprised the zip permission was refused. It would have added just that bit more to an already interesting place with little negative impact. The Friends of the Lake District seem to be disconnected with this part of the lakes. We want an area that can support our families over the years through innovation and brave decisions, so that our region does not become a place for the second home owners and elderly only. There are few businesses that are able to offer diverse interests whilst still functioning as a traditional business as the mine is.
Let's hope the team at Honister appeal this decision. The potential for the area is huge. The potential for putting our region on "the map" as somewhere that businesses can develop is significant to the long term financial input to the area.
If an appeal is submitted, I for one will make my voice heard in support. Let's get behind this.

I applaud Sir Chris for his stand on the Luddite decision re the Zip wire How many Fiends (no spelling mistake ) actually live in the Lake District and know anything about the industrial past of Honister.Why dont they and that Parking lot do something about the continual rape of Scafell Pike by well meaning but uninformed 3 Peakers leaving rubbish and faeces all over the place while not contributing a jot to the local economy.Its time we got rid the organisations claiming to look after the Park and let the locals run the show.

What the national parks need is a greater appeal to different groups of people from all walks of society for a varied number of activities and different interests. The MOST WIDELY supported is already walkers and ramblers and yet these are the people who want to ban all other activities. This ski wire would have been a great tourist attraction for younger people who may not enjoy walking that much, it would have provided some local employment too. The parks are a resource to support all outdoor activities. If you are in an area where they want to mountain bike and you want to walk... then don't walk on the laid out single-track mountain bike trails etc etc etc. The parks are some of our biggest resources (literally), surely there is room for many activities to co-exist, especially where they are clearly demarked. I presume the zip wire would be fixed? so if you don't like it don't go to that part of the park. These groups really are robbing our rights to use those spaces for a wide variety of uses. they are a disgrace. Personally I love walking with my family and my dogs, but I would be a very boring person if that was all I did AND then tried to ensure that was also all anyone else could do as well.

Hmm, it seems the Honister Slate Mine supporters club has invaded the site ;-)

Personally I am ambivalent about the zip-wire idea. However the following comments show a distinct lack of environmental awareness and a narrow view of other issues;
*tourism impact - how can it have a negative impact?
*Look at Europe, the have progress, Skiing, cable cars, huts and more, working with the Enviroment.
*Honister slate mine have been very careful to ensure there was minimal impact on the environment when building the via ferrata (why the £30,000 fine then?)
*land his helicopter, nip in the office and take off again within about 10 minutes.
*of a "Friends of Organisation" which is frequently made up of people who have retired with nothing else to do but stop the rest of us enjoying ourselves.

This leads me to think the planning committee made the correct decision.

What precisely is the point of Natural England protecting the "tall herb" community referred to in Colin Wells comments on 9th Jan above?
If nobody can go there to see it for fear of scuffing it up, is it just for botanists on special visits or are even they banned from visiting the site? Do Natural England damage it when they visit, or are they banned as well?
Will Natural England set up sheep scarers to stop them venturing too near and damaging the herbs?

This is not a peaceful part of the Lake District. The mine generates noise in its activities, both mining and working the slate and also taking visitors up its roads. But venture a mile or so away and you will hear nothing of its presence.

Can the Friends of the Lake District provide us with details of its membership please? I imagine most are not local to Cumbria and some are second home owners here. Their objections are more a case of "Not in my second-homes back yard".

Good luck on the appeal against this ruling and well done Sir Chris on standing up for some commonsense on this issue.

I have been going to the Lakes as a visitor for over 25 years. I went on my honeymoon, fell in love with the place. The wonderful hills, the food. I got into hillwalking, and have summited over 120 named tops some of them Like Helvellyn 20 times or so. I now enjoy winter climbing as well as summer days visiting remote vistas and tea shops.
I am 46 and am in love with the Lake district.
I have to say...........Friends of the Lakes? it doesnt sound like it. From what I saw, Mark was also a Lover of the Lakes, and wanted people to enjoy it in all sorts of ways. As stated earlier, this isnt just a wild land. Tall herbs? Im sure plants can look after themselves, if they go........they go. Is it really so important? Who is visiting the herbs?

As for Sir Chris B......I can only commend him for being true to his coviction and acting on it. He always seems a very passionate, Yet conciderate man.

I missed the chance to use Marks Via Ferrata, I normally have to travel rather a long way to find some. Me thinks that so many of these debunkers dont even venture out to these wild and dramatic places, and realise theres no way it would give a bad impact. Either visually or audiably.

Good luck to Marks family and friends, the Lakes deserves to have new things as well as old.

Friends of the Lake District is a fine organisation which campaigns against developments which would alter the main aspects of the area which make it attractive to many of its residents and visitors. There are few enough areas as beautiful and quiet as the Lake District.

I would support a zip wire from the top of the Blackpool Tower, but please can we keep the best part of England free from encouragements to screaming adrenalin junkies? I'm an ex-climber so I understand the attraction of adventurous sports, but the Lakes has plenty of opportunities already for adventure and excitement without it moving in the direction of a theme park.

There's some seriously scary misinformation and blinkered opinion on here - and it's from the pro-zip wire side for a change.

The Lake District relies on the LANDSCAPE as it's primary tourism offer and many would do well not to forget that. If it was flat fields between the M6 and west cumbria would anyone come? Of course not. Would people travel across the country and the planet in their millions every year - no. Cumbria would consist of Carlisle at the top, a power station out west and a whole lot of nothing in the middle.

So, if you knacker the thing that put you there in the first place then what do you have left? And when you have performed this massive own-goal, where then? Oh yeah you've got a zip wire that's going to save the Cumbrian tourism industry. The zip wire and things like it are once only experiences for most people. Once everyone who wants to do it has done it what then? You've frightened off those you rely on. It's painfully obvious but few on here seem to see it.

This is the point that Friends of the Lake District are making. They just have an image problem because locals see them as the representatives of the second home brigade.

Mark seemed to be a driven and charismatic guy in the BBC documentary but that has absolutely nothing to do with the planning decision - you wouldn't be happy with an oil refinery next to your house just because the owner was a decent bloke.

More worrying is the push to personalise the whole thing. The zip wire would have created two and a bit jobs on the mine's own evidence. Wow - problem solved. It's not about Honister or the mine or the individuals involved. What sort of viable business model is so utterly dependent on getting a zip wire anyway?

This whole things is pitting Cumbrians against each other when we should be working together to decide what are the best ways to help the tourism industry but not shoot ourselves in the foot in the process. I'm Cumbrian born, bred and resident and it's a pretty depressing thing to see, with the BBC, local papers etc having a right good laugh at it all at our expense.

Oh and David West Cumbria, the vegetation on the crag exists precisely because the sheep can't get at it and graze it.

The first half of the sentance in the last comment was absolutely correct the rest of the article just goes on to prove it .

Could not agree more Timbo,Bill and JNB for their balanced overview. Forgotten too in much of the above discussion is that both the BMC and the Fell and Rock Climbing Club opposed this too. There is undoubtedly a place for zip wires and new and exciting activities and other sustainable developments to ensure that the Lake District economy is not 'set in aspic- ' Examples include GoApe in Grizedale Forest.
But not in the heart of the fells with access from a narrow road that already struggles to cope with traffic.

The National park is a a national treasure in an extremely over populated country. Other countries may be able to take man made pleasure attractions, but the Lake District too small.
Most people come to the Lakes for the beauty and tranquility not Blackpool pleasure . There could most likely be a NEGATIVE impact on tourism if such schemes were allowed. As a dedicated supporter of the Lakes .Well done the National parks committee to resist the considerable pressure to resist .

There are 2 issues here:
1) the decision itself (at this time) upon which there will be divided opinion with rationales to justify those opinions
and
2) the process and representation that has led to this decision...It is this aspect that is the most concerning.

The friends of of the lake district are not a representative body ...68% (44M) people use facebook FOLD have 630 friends...when i queried this with FOLD I was told i 'was confusing membership with agreement and the 'silent majority agree with us' ...(how could one possibly construe that as arrogant statement!) Disproportionate credence is given to FOLD who are not representative and assume a position of intellectual snobbery ...that others (who FOLD will look down their nose at) see the landscape and conservation and preservation objectives by a different and more holistic strategy is the real issue with FOLD. Far greater damage is done to the lakes by extensive planting of coniferous woodland, by overgrazing and brutal path building/pitching by Forest Enterprise, farmers and the National Trust...FOLD do not pick fights here as 1 they are fighting giants and 2 there is a conflict of interest.
What we want is less we know better than you from any bodies that claim representation and greater actual representation of well formed majority interest. Just why FOLD wasted so much time on this is entirely down to personalities and not realities...true colours will become apparent from all bodies when the Ennerdale Fell dump site goes through...and it will (the language, political imperative and necessity is already there).

Several points here. Friends of the Lake District were by no means the only body opposing - others include British Mountaineering Council, Fell and Rock Climbing Club to say nothing of the parish councils of the two communities most affected Buttermere and Borrowdale.

Certainly press reports give the impression that FLD were the only objectors. One could of course raise the issue of the disproportionate media coverage given to the zipwire in the first place - a programme on the Honister project on national TV + air time on Radio 4 Today programme is rather more than most planning applications of this scale get.

As to FLD and Ennerdale Fuel Dump you may well be right that this will be driven through by a government with little thought for environment but that is not through lack of work by FLD http://www.fld.org.uk/more-geological-research-needed-before-taking-the-search-for-a-nuclear-repository-in-west-cumbria-to-the-next-stage.html

I'm a frequent visitor to this area but wouldn't return if this zip wire was to go ahead because I don't want to listen to the sounds of shrieking chavs. As I'm far from being alone in this thinking, I believe that this proposal would do huge damage to the environment and would seriously harm businesses in Buttermere and Borrowdale. How Chris Bonnington can support this stupidity is beyond me.

With his policies wasn't Jack Ellerby the architect of Exmoor National Park's economic woes?

Gawd, if this is how the Honister Slate Mine operators are going to wreck the Lakes then I'd visit elsewhere.

And I'm under 50 and would have thought same under 40!

I think the zipwire is a great idea. I'd also like to see those boring old rowing boats on Derwent Water replaced with a fleet of jetskis and banana boats. And the track round Buttermere is wide and well laid, making it very suited to quadbike safaris. Think of all the potential that's currently going to waste!

The refusal was a very good & sound decision.

I am very surprised indeed that Chris Bonnington supported the increased disneyfication of such a sensitive area.

The infrastructure of Borrowdale just cannot support vastly increased visitor numbers.

I was born in Cumbria and spend as much time there as I can, I know every inch- without a map.

The evidence of the last 65 years and my own eyes is that increased visitor numbers are destroying what they come to see.

If you do not go to the Lakes to walk or cycle, do not go. Trippers in cars to a zip wire are just not wanted.

What's wrong with a bobble hat or two? And, as an over 50 woman I love the idea of a zip wire(adventure sports good for senile dementia sufferers and Alzheimer's apparently!)
But, is it not possible of both sides to respect each other and listen? I am VERY keen on wild flora and fauna.
And, the local,people need work AND wildlife