Advice for the two "free" walkers rescued by the free MRT... Free apology? Free donation...?

Same old same old.
People have the right to do what they what when they want and if some mountain rescue bods had said that to me I doubt that I would have been so polite. Who do they think they are ?? Toss pots
The supposably ill equiped did not get rescued and its no use having all the gear if you cant use it. The two who did get rescued obvoiusly had no navigational skills and very little judgement or may be they didnt fancy the taxi fare back round from Llanberis ???
There seems to be lots of double standards I see lots of very lightly equiped fell runners on the tops at all times of the years no one seems to be trying to ban them ??? and lots of the "famous" doing very silly things on mountain bikes etc etc for a good video and them being seen as "hereos"
Stop moaning MRT if you dont like it dont volunteer

This attitude will prevail until such time as rescue in the mountains becomes something that is no longer free, not because the rescue teams wish to profit but because the increasing numbers of the moronic minded that cause uneccessary rescue due to selfish stupidity.

I accept that even the most experienced and well equipped party can require the services of the MRT but how often do we read about people in the hills who are ill equipped inexperienced and who dont listen to well meant advice from others.

The rescue services will i fear need to either be able to recoup their costs via hillgoers having insurance or by being centrally funded full time employees of some faceless govt ministry.

Stay safe out there folks.

I'm surprised by your attitude Stag Bettle (as a reader of an outdoor website and I'm assuming a person who enjoys the outdoors), the MRT aren't trying to ban anyone from the hills their just offering some friendly advice. Whether people choose to accept it is up to them however ultimately it's the MRT that will respond when things go wrong. MRT's often deal with incidents that with a little common sense could have been avoided, this is particularly galling when a fatality is involved, as is regularly the case.
Perhaps if you volunteered a little of your outdoor time to a local SAR/MR team you would understand this better.

I think the attitude of some people stinks!!!The
M r t go out in all weather conditions to rescue
People and know the areas like the backs of their
Hands they give a little friendly advise and get insulated
Some people don't respect the mountains for what
They are and deserve all they get!!!!

Stag Beetle's comments are very surprising for someone who follows Grough. Putting MRT members at risk is one thing, but once the RAF get involved there is significant cost to the taxpayer, not to mention costs to the NHS when the casualty gets taken to A&E. SB - I can only assume you were playing devil's advocate to start a discussion?

Stag Beetle - I am a serving member of a MRT and I feel I am entitled to moan about hill goers with little common sense and that are ill equipped as all too often this is the cause of so many accidents.

This view is shared by many of my fellow team members and if we are to take your advice and not volunteer then who do you suppose will come to your assistance if you happen to find yourself stuck down a gully with a broken leg?

Accidents happen regardless of experience. However a little common sense can reduce the risk significantly. Would your conscience be clear if a MRT member had serious or fatal accident trying to rescue you if you had ventured out in the hills without the appropriate equipment and where having that equipment would have avoided the need for you to be rescued?

I completely agree with Ptarmigan...you should see what really happens by giving up some time to volunteer for your local MRT.

S

Stag Beetle - As a serving member of a MRT I feel that I am entitled to moan about hill goers with little common sense and that are ill equipped for the conditions.

Yes...accidents can happen to anyone, even those with experience and the right equipment. However, many of the rescues we get called to could have been prevented with a bit of common sense. Whilst I agree that there are many "famous" people out there glorifying risk taking it should not be a case of monkey see, monkey do. Do you believe everything you see on T.V?

If my fellow MRT volunteers take your advice and stop going to the need of those in trouble then who do you expect to come to your aid when you have fallen 30ft down a gully and have life threatening injuries?

Would your conscious be clear if a MRT member suffered a serious or fatal injury trying to rescue you and you had ventured out without the right equipment and that equipment would have prevented you from needing our assistance?

I think the advice from Ptarmigan is spot on...perhaps you should give up some of your time to volunteer for your local MRT and see what really happens.

As a member of an MRT and someone was has worked in the mountains most of my life, I completely agree with Stag Beetle's comments.

Mountain Rescue teams are not the mountain Police. We are only here to pick up the pieces if something goes wrong with our fellow climbers.

I always cringe when I see or hear of MRT members "advising" the public. Any advice given has to be done in a friendly and non-superior tone.

We are all mountaineers and equals, the moment we forget that is the moment someone tells us to piss off and continues regardless.

Many MRT members have no appreciation of the power that a planted "seed of doubt" has over an egotistical "telling off."

And in answer to Gosshawk,

I think you're on dangerous ground.

Why is it ok to criticise poorly prepared walkers but not an E3 climber who's pushing his luck at the grade? What's the difference?

The only logical answer is that there is no difference. So would you now say that climbers pushing their grades are being irresponsible?? Dangerous ground for a mountaineer wouldn't you say?

I joined MR to be there to help anyone, no matter who they are or what they've done. The nature of MR is that we rescue a lot of people who are a bit poorly prepared. If you don't like that, and if you don't like the kind of people that you're rescuing. Go and find yourself another hobby.

There are plenty of people who will fill your shoes for more honourable reasons and they won't moan about it.

Gotta say that Hawkmoths comments leave me somewhat dumbfounded, surely as someone who works in MR you agree with the basic notion that prevention is better than cure ?

Also I have to say that a properly equipped climber getting into difficulty on an E3 is not the same as a mindless moron venturing into winter conditions wearing jeans trainers and a freaking pacamac.

I enjoy being outside my comfort zone thats part of the attraction but its not the same as being outside of your skillset but hey as ive posted before lets withdraw all MTRs for a year and let natural selection take over shall we?

Stay safe out there folks.

TheEdgeOL17,

I don't work for MR. I volunteer my time to MR, for nothing.

Yes, prevention is better than cure but education is better than prevention.

You have completely misinterpreted my analogy.

Being outside of your comfort zone is EXACTLY like being "outside of your skillset."

I'm with the Ogwen MRT on this one - sometimes people need to be saved from their own stupidity. I was driving along the A55 yesterday - conditions on the tops looked seriously challenging.
Dave

Interesting that you should think so Hawkmoth. I am an experienced hillwalker and a reasonably competent scrambler.

I find grade 3 / 3s scrambles are capable of putting me outside my comfort zone but I still have the neccessary skills (I have attended climbing courses at PYB and have climbed as a second on vdiff) and equipment (helmet rope slings chocks harness where applicable quickdraws etc) to be able to safely summit or reach my objective or in a worst case scenario self rescue.

Oh I also believe in the maxim dont climb up something you cant retreat from.

Stay safe out there folks.

While I tend to agree with the position that mountain rescue teams must become frustrated with continually having to help people who find themselves in difficulty through their own stupidity. being a daily reader of Grough I cannot help but form the impression that this particular MRT, Ogwen, seems to think that it is some sort of self-appointed mountain police, judge and jury organisation.

In many reports I read on here about people being stuck on Tryfan (for example) the closing comments of this team's spokesperson are invariably scathing towards those they have been called out to help. I like to think that I am sensible, know my own limitations and have never found myself in difficulty, but if I was I wouldn't feel too comforable calling for help from Ogwen MRT.

As I noted in another recent post - 'I think the question we should all be asking is, why those 'inexperienced' people are taking to the hill.'

To gain experience and enjoy the environment and perhaps the challenge of conditions they're not (yet) used to?

As those of you who venture into the Glyders will have noticed by my username, its my favourite area and consequently I am a member of 333 which is the support group for the Ogwen Valley MRT.

The reason I feel why they get many needless callouts is due to the fact that unlike many other areas where a certain amount of planning is equired you can drive down the valley park your car and within 10 minutes find yourself in a potentially fatal situation (5 minutes if you park at the Milestone Buttress). Lets face it there cant be many 3000ers where you can stand on the summit and see your car parked below and its this proximity of summit to starting point that attracts many who are neither experienced or equipped for the rigours of the ascent.

Stay safe out there folks

Noddies, both of em!

Live in Toy Town, ware Toy Town gear, "lets Noddy up a big hill", said Big Ears.

If one had died, (or both), which well they might of, the responses would be very different.

Which body of volunteers would have gone to find and retrieve the corpses?

Who else would be in a position to offer potentially life saving advice for future trips??

I'm all for pushing limits, but they were doing 100 mph on a 1000cc motorbike, 2 weeks after passing their test, without a helmet! (We can all play the analogy game). Would I go to sea in my new blow up dingy in a force 9?? Try and row for France?

Guess its all relative.

Cheep outdoor gear promising the earth and delivering nowt taint helping here either.

Is there any particular reason why my previous comment is being withheld, other than that it doesn't fit in with the bias of the article?

Jim, your comment was captured by our automated anti-spam system which detects, among other things, certain keywords that may be in contravention of our terms and conditions.
I have now released the comment and it is displayed above.
UPDATE
Following a further representation, the comment in question has been removed under paragraph 4 of our terms and conditions.
Bob Smith
Editor

Thanks Bob.

TheEdgeOL17 - roads leading to high access points have always existed and may be partly to blame, but it does not fully explain the more recent increase in numbers needing rescue.

I smashed my coccyx to pieces by slippin on an algae covered boulder on cader idris 2yrs ago i regularly climb there, but was turned around when the weather changed quickly up by the llyn in oppositon to the mountain forecast. I would never have called the mrt boys out ! I dragged my sorry ass down that mountain myself rather than have them out thru my own mishap. U take ur own life in ur hands on the mountain i dont believe personally in puttin the mrt at risk as well unless ur absolutely unable to drag urself down! They do an excellant job out of the kindness of their souls, stop expectin lifts down when uve wandered off coz ur a dick please eh