What a load of Health and Safety nonsense. An overnight stay is not going to have any long term health implications. A Bothy is not likely to be visited by the same people over and over again.

So, over the years and the many hundreds if not thousands of people who have visited it are all now suffering from Asbestosis?................No?............ Thought not!

This comment is ill informed. Limited asbestos exposure can lead to asbestosis and mesothelioma and all exposure should be regarded as hazardous.

Asbestosis is a chronic inflammatory and fibrotic medical condition affecting the parenchymal tissue of the lungs caused by the inhalation and retention of asbestos fibres. It usually occurs after high intensity and/or long-term exposure to asbestos (particularly in those individuals working on the production or end-use of products containing asbestos) and is therefore regarded as an occupational lung disease. People with extensive occupational exposure to the mining, manufacturing, handling, or removal of asbestos are at risk of developing asbestosis. - Wikipedia!

Asbestosis is a chronic (long-term) lung condition caused by prolonged exposure to asbestos. Asbestosis is a relatively rare condition as it takes a considerable amount of exposure to cause it. - NHS!

Mesothelioma is quite a rare cancer. We know that asbestos causes most cases of pleural mesothelioma. The risk is greater if you were exposed to large amounts of it from an early age for a very long period of time. - Cancer Research UK

Crashing your car or falling off a mountain can be regarded as hazardous and should be avoided. A complete over reaction because of the compensation culture of this country these days.

Quite agree with Sheepy. This seems to be a major over reaction. Firstly there are non hazardous forms of asbestos. Are the MBA sure Culra contains the hazardous sort. Secondly asbestos can only give rise to asbestosis/mesothelioma if it is sawn or drilled, so giving rise to inhalable fibres. It is safe if left undisturbed. Why not encapsulate it ? There is no need to knock down a fabulous bothy.

Could I set the record straight. There are 3 Asbestos disease - Lung Cancer, Asbestosis & Mesothelioma.

Asbestosis is a dose responsive disease generally through working with Asbestos.

Mesothelioma is a disease of the pleural lining of the lungs. The size of the fibres inhaled means that they become embedded in the Alveoli (the deepest part of the lungs), THERE IS NO KNOWN EXPOSURE LIMIT. There are no known survivors.

Every year 2,300 people die from Mesothelioma in the UK and the figure is growing. Ever year there are 4,500 people that die from Asbestos diseases - Mesothelioma, Asbestosis, Lung Cancer.
It is a legal obligation for all commercial property, public buildings and certain parts of domestic premises built pre 2000. If someone has ever visited that Bothy and has an Asbestos disease, then they can make a financial claim against the Bothy owners. It would be up to the Bothy owners to prove that the disease was not as a result of using the Bothy. For more information www.orrion.co.uk

Elf 'n' Safety culture is rife in the MBA these days, what with the fire blankets/removal of fireplaces and upper floors/sleeping platforms, this doesn't surprise me at all... although you can never count against the stupidity of some moron who comes along and saws up the furniture/breaks up wall panels etc for firewood...

Nigel is, I'm afraid misinformed as there is no non-hazardous asbestos. All types are Class A carcinogens. Chrysotile (white) has a lower risk rating than other types but can still cause asbestos related diseases. Approximately 4,500 people die in the UK every year from asbestos related disease, three times the number that die on the roads.

No one is saying that there are not asbestos related diseases. However, in the real world I don't believe that anyone could seriously suggest that a single over night stay at this bothy 30 years ago will result in someone contracting one of those diseases.

As stated above from various sources the perceived wisdom is that long term exposure and working with this substance results in these diseases not brief passing visits.

My point is the world has gone mad and compo culture prevails. The knocking down of this bothy will save no lives and benefit no one except whoever builds the new one.

I don't believe outdoor people who spend nights in bothies need the nanny state to protect them.

Sheepy. You are wrong, not incorrect, just plain wrong. I am an Asbestos Consultant and can confirm that the latency period is only a guide. 2 recent incidences of Asbestos death include an 18yr old schoolgirl and a 27yr old school teacher. There is no known safe exposure limit.

That aside, the Bothy owners do not have any insurance for someone potentially contracting Asbestos disease and if someone successfully brought a claim against them, then the cost would be enormous. You cannot argue with science. All the Asbestos deaths are not a fabrication as Steve C highlighted.

I agree with you sheepy. 100%. how many people have stayed in the bothy over the years and been fine. we have become such a nanny state and there is so much cant do this, cant do that, we are afraid to have any fun. the mountains are one place where we get away from this and are able to make our own decisions- sadly not as far as culra bothy is concerned

The estate and MBA have always known that there was asbestos in the building and the survey was not undertaken because people were sleeping in the bothy.

The building is actually in a much poorer structural condition than it looks and requires early and significant work.

The asbestos survey was carried out in advance of this work to ensure that volunteers drilling, cutting, sawing, etc., would not be placed at significant risk by creating asbestos dust and breathing in during the renovation works.

The asbestos consultant carrying out the survey was sufficiently concerned to recommend immediate closure & in these circumstances there was nothing else the MBA or estate could do.

I like Culra bothy and am not a heath and safety zealot but I am from an industrial area & I agree 100% with the closure.

We are now working to see whether the bothy can be replaced which will cost a significant amount of money not least as a specialist company will have to be brought in at huge cost to clear the asbestos from the building and off the hill to a licenced tip.

Everyone is entitled to their view but ill-informed criticism and negativity simply does not help the situation. Everyone needs to accept that we are where we are & the existing building will not reopen.

IF you want a replacement Culra bothy then you need to say yes we want a replacement & help this process along rather than undermining by carping from the sidelines !!

Totally agree with David (trees). If a replacement is wanted, just say. There is no point of the argument continueing.

I have been to the both several time, not to stay overnight, but visitied to change gear etc. I know many who have stayed there and are quite well these day.

Knock it down, rebuild it and continue. If the rebuild needs an assisted payment, I'm sure everyone who visits year in, year out wouldnt mind paying a charitable amount.

Nuff said

I completely agree with David and Pete Swales. Culra has been a good bothy in a great place.

Places like Culra will continue to exist while the MBA and supportive estates can work together with the positive backing of those of us who use these bothies.

I've been meaning to join MBA for some long time - now is a good time to get round to it, I think. If support in cash or on workparties is needed to keep Culra, I'm up for it.

There is an informative report about this in the latest MBA Journal. The survey was done in advance of planned repair work because MBA volunteers would be drilling, cutting, sawing. The survey was necessarily intrusive i.e. it created dust.

The shocking result was that the building contains not only chrysotile, which is white asbestos and was expected but olso crocidolite, blue asbestos, which is the most dangerous kind was commonly used to insulate steam engines, because of its having the best heat resistance.

That is the reason the building has been declared officially closed. In fact, it is not locked, but people are warned to use it only in an emergency. If they choose to disregard those warnings then they take personal responsibility for that.

In the circumstances, it seems to me that the MBA had no choice in the matter and their action has been proportionate.

Hi

I travelled to Culra on the 30th March, to spend a night there on my birthday, in preparation to climb the 4 Munros on the ridge the next day. Only to find that it was closed...
I agree that it should be closed down and rebuilt totally, if it's unsafe then yes a new build would be far better. But don't you think that it would have been a good idea to have put a notice at the train station/road end in Dalwhinnie letting others know that the thing is closed...32k round trip with panniers on and I had to turn round and go home!
I guess people will be wondering 'was it alright when I slept there that time'? We stayed for a night several years ago...
Is the area around the Bothie safe to camp/stay?
Am I/we unnecissarily worrying...?
How many other Bothies are built this way?
Good luck with the rebuild if it gets the go ahead.

It should be noted that Culra bothy is still getting used by walkers, despite the closure notice. The bothy is being wrecked
by irresponsible people burning the fittings and leaving their runbbish.

An asbestos survey is usually pretty invasive, and there is a good chance fibres have already been exposed. People using this bothy are taking a big risk with their health. It has been left open for extreme emergencies only, not regular use.

If you go into the hills, you shouldn’t be relying on a bothy anyway; should always have a tent with you as you never know if the bothy will be available or have space.

mba are definitely stuck in there own health safety world.
the questions is why?
i think its good to bring consciousness to what is present.like asbestos.
quote:
Some agencies, such as the Health Protection Agency in the U.K., claim amphibole varieties of asbestos are the most dangerous forms. The EPA has abandoned projects aiming to identify which asbestos fiber types are the most toxic, citing the overall regulation of asbestos and asbestiform minerals as a more pressing priority.

Thanks for the comments. Had I read the former older comments I may have thought it ok to go and visit this bothy, but after reading the latter and also the MBA report it's obvious that excluding a true emergency (snow whiteout, severe storms) then it is best to avoid this bothy.

Possible to crowd-fund its removal and a new replacement?

I'm a keen hillwalker, fell runner, and bothy-botherer.

My day job is supporting people with asbestos diseases. Most of the people I support are elderly blokes who've worked in industry or construction. But some are much younger, and they've had barely any exposure to asbestos.

The health and safety rules in this country allow asbestos to be left in place if it's in good condition.

If the MBA hired a specialist to do a report, and the specialist recommended closure (rather than removal or monitoring), then the asbestos in culra must be both extensive and in poor condition. I wouldn't risk sleeping in culra except in an emergency.